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trust and safety is being used as an invisibility cloak to trick someone into going into a sales call deeply deeply disturbs me

💨 tl;dr

Cloudflare's sales tactics are aggressive and misleading, pushing businesses into expensive plans with fake deadlines. Their 'unlimited' traffic isn't truly unlimited, and their customer support is poor. Trust and safety are misused for sales, and the CEO hasn't taken responsibility. Pricing is arbitrary and lacks transparency, causing significant downtime and lost trust.

💡 Key Ideas

• Cloudflare's sales practices are aggressive, predatory, and misleading.
• The term 'unlimited' traffic used by Cloudflare is misleading and not genuinely unlimited.
• Cloudflare often pressures businesses into expensive Enterprise plans with fake deadlines.
• Trust and safety at Cloudflare is misused to drive sales rather than protect customers.
• Cloudflare's CEO has not taken responsibility for the aggressive sales tactics.
• Cloudflare's pricing is arbitrary, lacks transparency, and varies significantly among customers.
• Poor customer support and communication from Cloudflare, with vague and unhelpful responses.
• Cloudflare's abrupt service shutdowns and high-pressure sales tactics have caused significant downtime and lost customer trust.
• Other companies like Vercel and AWS provide more customer-friendly support and pricing.
• Cloudflare's DDoS protection and CDN services are essential but come with significant customer service and sales practice issues.

🎓 Lessons Learnt

• Be cautious of sudden price hikes and aggressive sales tactics: Cloudflare's demand for a large upfront fee or threat to take down domains shows that companies can use predatory tactics.
• Have a backup plan for critical services: Cloudflare’s sudden domain purge highlights the need for contingency plans to avoid downtime.
• Unlimited plans are often not truly unlimited: Cloudflare’s 'unlimited' traffic plan was misleading, indicating hidden limits or conditions.
• Evaluate customer service and sales practices: Recurring negative experiences with Cloudflare’s sales team suggest assessing these practices before committing.
• Sales teams can misrepresent technical issues: They might frame sales pitches as urgent technical problems, misleading customers.
• Be wary of urgent-sounding emails from sales: These may be veiled sales tactics rather than genuine issues.
• Always make sure you are talking to the right department: Ensures proper communication and avoids miscommunication.
• Demand specific details in communications: Vague emails complicate problem-solving; request explicit information.
• Trust and safety teams need adequate resources: Essential for maintaining platform integrity, especially in user-generated content.
• Be prepared to resolve issues proactively: Show willingness to make necessary changes to comply with service terms.
• Don't let trust and safety be used for sales tactics: Should focus on internet safety, not pushing sales.
• Beware of predatory sales organizations: Misleading or unethical tactics can harm businesses.
• Separate technology from sales practices: Good tech services can coexist with problematic sales teams.
• Layoffs can be mishandled: Companies might avoid severance by falsely blaming employees.
• Customer-centric problem resolution is crucial: Address customer issues fairly without upselling unnecessarily.
• Transparency and fairness are critical: Ethical companies handle billing issues transparently and often provide refunds.
• Escalate support issues via public channels if necessary: Social media can draw attention and resolutions.
• Check service refund policies before committing: Understand potential risks and liabilities.
• Verify the necessity of recommended upgrades: Question expensive upgrades and seek detailed explanations.
• Align contract terms with your needs: Insist on flexible payment terms that match your financial planning.
• Be aware of fiscal calendar impacts on sales pressure: Sales teams may push harder towards fiscal quarters’ end to meet targets.
• Transparency is crucial in customer communication: Clearly communicate metrics and reasons for price increases.
• Executives need to acknowledge and address failures publicly: Maintains credibility when significant issues arise.
• Customer-focused resolution fosters goodwill: Promptly addressing mistakes can build customer loyalty.
• Internal process failures require immediate correction: Quickly fix issues that lead to customer dissatisfaction.
• Offer flexible payment options: Forcing full-year upfront payments without monthly options can alienate customers.
• Provide consistent pricing: Charging different rates for the same service can seem unfair.
• Verify pricing transparency before committing: Fly IO’s transparent pricing is a better alternative to Cloudflare’s hidden costs.
• Have alternative providers ready: Be prepared to switch to keep operations running smoothly.
• Take responsibility as a leader: Own up to mistakes instead of blaming the team.
• Communicate layoffs with empathy: Frame them as restructuring to maintain morale.
• Ensure internal processes are reliable: Avoid disruptions caused by slow responses and arbitrary decisions.
• Follow up on customer issues personally: Address mistakes directly to provide the best experience.
• Avoid arbitrary pricing tactics: Don't use pricing to push customers away.
• Be cautious with Cloudflare's pricing structures: Their pricing can be inconsistent and unpredictable.
• Prepare for poor customer support: Getting help from Cloudflare can be difficult.
• Make regular backups of Cloudflare configurations: This avoids hassle if access is lost.
• Consider the actual need for Cloudflare: Evaluate if their services are necessary, especially with enterprise pricing.
• Understand the limitations of Cloudflare's DDoS protection: They might not detect sophisticated attacks.
• Communicate clearly with customers: Always be direct about issues to avoid evasion or inflation.
• Avoid toxic sales practices: Manipulative tactics lead to customer distrust.

🌚 Conclusion

Be cautious with Cloudflare's aggressive sales and misleading 'unlimited' plans. Have a backup plan, demand clear communication, and consider alternatives like Vercel or AWS for better support and pricing. Transparency and ethical practices are crucial for maintaining customer trust.

In-Depth

All Key Ideas

Issues with Cloudflare's Sales Practices

• Cloudflare's sales organization is problematic and the CEO has made troubling statements
• The company demanded $120,000 upfront within 24 hours or they would take down all domains
• Cloudflare purged all domains when the customer mentioned talks with a competitor, causing significant downtime and loss of customer trust
• The issue described is not an isolated incident; others have had similar experiences
• Cloudflare's Enterprise sales practices are described as predatory with fake deadlines for pricing
• Cloudflare provides essential services for the internet but needs to fix its sales team
• The term 'unlimited' traffic is misleading and practically a lie

Issues with Unlimited Plans and Cloud Services

• Unlimited plans often have hidden limits or eventually change, as seen with Dropbox and Google Drive.
• Upload Thing currently offers unlimited uploads and downloads, but acknowledges future changes might be necessary due to costs.
• The term "unlimited" can be misleading, leading to unexpected costs when limits are reached.
• Cloudflare has been known to aggressively push users towards Enterprise plans under the guise of network issues.
• There's a disconnect between Cloudflare's sales and engineering teams, with sales using misleading tactics to push upgrades.

Cloudflare Communication and Domain Management

• The email from Cloudflare mentioned domain rotation activities to evade blocks by third parties.
• Use of Cloudflare services for domain rotation activities is prohibited.
• The company has multiple domains acting as mirrors to comply with different regulatory requirements and target global user groups.
• The company acknowledges that using secondary domains to bypass DNS blocks could violate Cloudflare's terms of service.
• Cloudflare's communication was vague and not detailed enough.
• The company receives over 95% of its traffic through the main domain.
• Efforts to resolve the issue included willingness to remove affected secondary domains from Cloudflare.
• Cloudflare was not interested in providing detailed information or having a conversation about the issue.
• The company scheduled a call with Cloudflare's trust and safety team.
• Trust and safety is crucial for any online business, especially those dealing with user-generated content.

Concerns about Cloudflare's Sales Practices

• Trust and safety at Cloudflare is being used as a pretext for sales calls, which is deeply disturbing.
• Cloudflare's sales organization is described as predatory and separate from the rest of the company.
• An account executive at Cloudflare was laid off during onboarding under false pretenses to avoid giving severance.
• Cloudflare's sales tactics, including misleading terms and predatory behavior, create a liability for businesses.
• Other companies like Vercel and AWS offer more customer-friendly responses to pricing issues compared to Cloudflare's approach.
• Cloudflare is willing to lie and intimidate to get money, unlike other companies which often refund users for errors.

Issues and Concerns with Vercel and Cloudflare

• Poor support experience with Vercel, requiring a tweet for a refund
• Several other similar incidents were refunded except one with Cloudflare
• Recommending Cloudflare as an alternative to Vercel is risky
• Cloudflare is mostly used as a CDN and DDoS protection, not for serverless
• Cloudflare's trust and safety team is unresponsive about domain issues
• Cloudflare pushes for expensive Enterprise plans without clear reasons
• Cloudflare insists on yearly commitments, not monthly payments
• Cloudflare's sales team is under pressure to meet metrics by the end of Q2/H1

Issues with Cloudflare's Sales Practices

• Cloudflare's sales team is threatening businesses to meet their metrics
• Cloudflare's sales tactics involve pressuring customers to buy unnecessary services
• The CEO of Cloudflare has not acknowledged or apologized for these aggressive sales practices
• Cloudflare's misuse of the trust and safety team to coerce sales
• The company is celebrating its stock exchange anniversary without addressing these issues
• The CEO, Matthew, is implicitly endorsing these practices by not speaking out
• The sales team imposed a 40x price increase threat without proper metric explanation
• The speaker compares Cloudflare’s lack of accountability to AWS's approach of admitting mistakes
• The speaker shares a personal anecdote about handling billing mistakes with transparency and customer care

Concerns about Cloudflare

• The abuse of trust and safety to make sales at Cloudflare is alarming
• Concerns about Cloudflare's 40x price increase being unjustified and poorly communicated
• Cloudflare's threats weren't just empty; they demanded a full year's payment upfront
• Cloudflare's services, such as CDN and DDoS protection, were the only ones used
• Cloudflare's lack of transparency regarding traffic limits and bandwidth usage
• The term 'unlimited' is used by Cloudflare to allow future upselling at higher costs
• Cloudflare's practice of locking customers out of their accounts, preventing access to historical analytics
• Significant price discrepancies exist for similar Cloudflare services among different customers

Comparisons and Issues with Cloudflare

• True pricing at Fly IO is transparent, unlike Cloudflare.
• Not all bandwidth and unlimited data plans are equal; many are misleading.
• Cloudflare's pricing lacks transparency, leading to unexpected high costs.
• Cloudflare's sales tactics are considered shady.
• Cloudflare shut down services without warning due to negotiations with a competitor, Fastly.
• Cloudflare's sales team has been underperforming, missing expectations and KPIs.

Issues with Cloudflare's Management and Services

• The CEO of Cloudflare refuses to take any responsibility for problems, blaming the sales team instead.
• Cloudflare's CEO claims their products are the reason for their success, not the sales team's efforts.
• The CEO's harsh criticism of the sales team and decision to replace over 100 underperforming members is seen as heartless.
• Cloudflare's abrupt account suspension and deletion of domains left a client without critical services and support.
• The suspension email from Cloudflare didn't specify the terms of service violation and falsely claimed current services wouldn't be impacted.
• Cloudflare's delayed response and lack of clarity caused significant disruption to the client's operations.

Criticisms of Cloudflare

• Cloudflare's "Trust and Safety" team is perceived as ineffective and unresponsive.
• The speaker expresses strong dissatisfaction with Cloudflare's customer service and handling of issues.
• The speaker would take personal responsibility to fix issues if similar problems occurred in their own business.
• The speaker criticizes Cloudflare for not addressing or owning up to their mistakes publicly.
• The speaker claims that Cloudflare's actions seem driven by sales targets rather than genuine customer service.
• The speaker suggests that Cloudflare is pressuring customers to switch to more expensive plans under dubious pretenses.
• The speaker is appalled by Cloudflare's culture and lack of executive accountability.
• The speaker believes Cloudflare should be transparent about their reasons for business decisions, particularly regarding legal issues.
• The speaker suspects Cloudflare is focused on extracting more money from customers rather than resolving issues.

Issues with Cloudflare's Pricing and Practices

• Cloudflare's "unlimited" traffic is an invisible bar with no clear threshold, leading to unpredictable charges.
• Cloudflare's pricing is arbitrary and based on how much they think they can make off a business.
• Cloudflare's lack of transparent traffic limits and Enterprise pricing forces businesses to upgrade unnecessarily.
• Cloudflare's sales tactics include using multiple domains to push for Enterprise accounts.
• Cloudflare's pricing lacks measurable metrics, relying instead on arbitrary decisions.
• Prices for the same services can vary significantly, depending on what Cloudflare thinks a business might pay.
• Cloudflare's aggressive sales tactics and unreasonable deadlines force businesses into costly upgrades.
• Cloudflare's support is unresponsive unless you have personal connections within the company.

Criticisms of Cloudflare

• Cloudflare's support and sales responsiveness are poor, requiring negative press to get attention.
• Vercel criticizes Cloudflare's bandwidth performance and stability, highlighting rebranding tactics like 'Argo'.
• Cloudflare's pricing for bandwidth is inconsistent and confusing, varying from 2 cents to 10 cents per gig.
• Cloudflare's free tier is misleading for businesses, leading to potential unexpected costs and sales calls.
• Users are advised against relying on Cloudflare's proprietary products due to potential risks and lock-ins.
• Cloudflare's business model either exploits customers through opaque enterprise pricing or provides free services to small users.
• Cloudflare's DDoS protection may not detect more sophisticated or specific attack types.
• Businesses, especially in regulated sectors like gambling, face additional complications and risks with Cloudflare.

Criticisms of Cloudflare

• Cloudflare should explicitly tell customers they don't want gambling sites on their IP addresses
• Cloudflare's sales team is described as incredibly toxic and operating in terrible ways
• The issue should be clearly communicated to customers without dancing around it
• The discussion criticizes Cloudflare for not being transparent and for potentially overcharging

All Lessons Learnt

Lessons Learned from Cloudflare Experience

• Be cautious of sudden price hikes and aggressive sales tactics: Cloudflare's sudden demand for $120,000 upfront or threat to take down domains shows that companies may use predatory sales tactics, so always be prepared for unexpected price hikes.
• Have a backup plan for critical services: The experience of dealing with Cloudflare's sudden domain purge highlights the importance of having a contingency plan to avoid sleepless nights and downtime.
• Unlimited plans are often not truly unlimited: The mention of Cloudflare's 'unlimited' traffic plan being misleading indicates that companies may impose hidden limits or conditions, so always scrutinize such claims.
• Evaluate customer service and sales practices: The recurring negative experiences with Cloudflare's sales team suggest that it's crucial to assess the customer service and sales practices of any service provider before committing long-term.

Common Issues with Unlimited Plans and Sales Tactics

• Unlimited plans often have hidden limits: Even services that advertise unlimited plans may impose restrictions or alter policies when usage becomes too high.
• Businesses may need to adjust policies to manage costs: Companies offering free or unlimited services might have to change terms if the costs become unmanageable due to heavy usage.
• Expect policy changes in high usage scenarios: Heavy users of unlimited services should anticipate potential future limitations or charges as businesses adapt to cost pressures.
• Sales teams can misrepresent technical issues: Sales personnel might frame sales pitches as urgent technical problems, which can be misleading and create mistrust.
• Be wary of urgent-sounding emails from sales: Emails from sales teams that claim urgent technical issues should be approached with skepticism, as they may be veiled sales tactics.

Best Practices for Communication with Service Providers

• Always make sure you are talking to the right department: When scheduling calls with service providers, ensure you are connected with the appropriate team to avoid miscommunication.
• Demand specific details in communications: Vague and generic emails can complicate problem-solving; always request explicit information to clearly understand and address the issue.
• Trust and safety teams need adequate resources: These teams are crucial for any online business involving user-generated content. They should be well-supported and trusted to maintain platform integrity.
• Be prepared to resolve issues proactively: When faced with potential violations, show willingness to make necessary changes, such as removing problematic domains, to comply with service terms.

Ethical Business Practices

• Don't let trust and safety be used for sales tactics - Trust and safety should focus on keeping the internet safe, not as a means to push sales.
• Beware of predatory sales organizations - Sales teams that mislead customers or use unethical tactics can be harmful to businesses.
• Recognize the separation between technology and sales practices - Good technology services can coexist with a problematic sales team, and it's important to distinguish between the two.
• Understand that layoffs can be mishandled - Companies might lay off employees under false pretenses to avoid severance, which is unethical.
• Look for customer-centric problem resolution - Companies should address customer issues directly and fairly, without trying to upsell unnecessarily.
• Value transparency and fairness - Ethical companies handle billing issues transparently and often provide refunds for user errors, unlike Cloudflare's described approach.

Best Practices for Managing Service Contracts

• Always escalate support issues via public channels if necessary: If traditional support isn't helping, try using social media to get attention and a resolution.
• Check service refund policies before committing: Knowing a company's track record with refunds can help you understand potential risks and liabilities.
• Understand the scope of services you're using: If you're using a service only for specific functions (like CDN and DOS protection), ensure you're clear on what you're actually paying for and what you need.
• Be cautious of high-pressure sales tactics: Companies pushing for large, upfront commitments may be trying to meet their sales quotas, not necessarily offering the best solution for you.
• Verify the necessity of recommended upgrades: If a company pushes for an expensive upgrade without clear justification, question the necessity and seek detailed explanations.
• Align contract terms with your needs: Insist on flexible payment terms that align with your financial planning, such as monthly commitments over yearly upfront payments.
• Be aware of fiscal calendar impacts on sales pressure: Sales teams may push harder for contracts towards the end of financial quarters or halves to meet their targets, not necessarily because it's best for you.

Customer Relationship Management Principles

• Sales tactics should not compromise customer relationships - Sales teams should not use threats or pressure tactics to secure deals, as it undermines trust and can harm long-term customer relationships.
• Transparency is crucial in customer communication - Companies must clearly communicate metrics and reasons for service changes or price increases to maintain transparency and trust with customers.
• Executives need to acknowledge and address failures publicly - When a significant issue arises, company leaders should publicly acknowledge mistakes and outline steps to prevent future occurrences to maintain credibility.
• Customer-focused resolution fosters goodwill - Promptly addressing billing mistakes and providing personal support can turn a negative experience into a positive one, fostering customer loyalty.
• Internal process failures require immediate correction - Companies should quickly fix internal issues that lead to customer dissatisfaction and implement measures to prevent recurrence.

Best Practices for Customer Trust

• Always communicate price changes transparently: A 40x price increase needs to be justified and communicated clearly to avoid customer distrust.
• Ensure service features match customer needs: Don't push unnecessary features on customers just to increase sales; it harms trust.
• Offer flexible payment options: Forcing a full-year upfront payment without monthly options can alienate customers.
• Avoid using 'unlimited' misleadingly: Labeling services as 'unlimited' but then imposing restrictions or upselling later can damage credibility.
• Maintain access to historical analytics: Blocking customers from their usage data can lead to mistrust and hinder their ability to manage their services.
• Provide consistent pricing: Charging different rates to different customers for the same service can seem unfair and exploitative.
• Include clear service metrics and guarantees: Be transparent about traffic limits, bandwidth, and uptime credits to avoid misunderstandings.
• Prioritize customer resolution over sales pressure: Focus on resolving issues rather than using them as leverage for upselling.

Key Considerations When Choosing a Service Provider

• Verify pricing transparency before committing: Fly IO offers transparent pricing, unlike Cloudflare which had hidden costs leading to unexpected high charges.
• Unlimited bandwidth claims are often misleading: Most claims of unlimited bandwidth are not genuine and come with hidden limitations.
• Always read the fine print: Cloudflare's fine print did not disclose limitations, leading to unforeseen costs and service disruptions.
• Clear upfront communication can save resources: Cloudflare’s lack of upfront communication caused unnecessary pain and financial loss during migration.
• Service providers may use aggressive tactics: Cloudflare shut down services without warning during contract negotiations, which can feel like blackmail.
• Have alternative providers ready: Being prepared to switch to alternative providers like Fastly can save downtime and keep operations running smoothly.
• Sales performance can be misleading: Cloudflare's success was partly due to the ease of selling good products, not necessarily the skill of their sales team.

Leadership and Communication Guidelines

• Take responsibility as a leader: Instead of blaming the team, leaders should own up to mistakes since they're ultimately responsible for the business.
• Communicate layoffs with empathy: Rather than harshly blaming sales teams, frame it as a company-wide restructuring to maintain morale.
• Be transparent and clear with terms of service violations: Clearly inform clients of specific violations to avoid confusion and frustration.
• Ensure internal processes are reliable: Cloudflare’s slow response and arbitrary DNS propagation times caused unnecessary disruptions; reliable and transparent processes are critical.
• Avoid misleading communications: Saying account suspensions won’t impact current services when they do can damage trust and client relationships.

Business Ethics Guidelines

• Always follow up on customer issues personally: If a company you run makes a mistake, ensure the public knows and address it directly to provide the best experience.
• Cut ties with unethical business partners: If a sponsor or business partner behaves unethically, end the relationship immediately.
• Transparency is key: If there's a specific reason for a business decision, be upfront about it rather than hiding behind vague excuses.
• Avoid arbitrary pricing tactics: Don't use arbitrary pricing to push customers away; this damages trust and credibility.
• Be wary of sales pressure tactics: Recognize when a company is pushing for more money due to sales quotas rather than genuine customer needs.

Guidelines for Dealing with Cloudflare

• Always demand clear traffic and pricing metrics - Cloudflare's lack of transparency in traffic limits and pricing can lead to unexpected charges and service interruptions.
• Be cautious of 'unlimited' offers - These often come with invisible thresholds that can result in additional costs or service disruptions without clear warnings.
• Transparency in service features is crucial - Know exactly what features you are paying for and whether you need them, as Cloudflare bundles unnecessary features without allowing opt-outs.
• Negotiate upfront and get everything in writing - Cloudflare's arbitrary and aggressive sales tactics can force you into expensive Enterprise plans; ensure to have clear terms agreed upon beforehand.
• Prepare for potential service disruptions - Cloudflare's practices can lead to significant business impacts, including loss of income and jobs, due to their unpredictable pricing and service limits.
• Explore and optimize alternatives to avoid unnecessary costs - If certain traffic doesn't need to go through a CDN, optimize your infrastructure to avoid paying for 'unlimited' traffic that isn’t truly unlimited.
• Be wary of aggressive sales tactics - Cloudflare may impose unreasonable deadlines and upfront payments, especially if they perceive you as having alternatives or being flaky.

Considerations When Using Cloudflare

• Be cautious with Cloudflare's pricing structures: Their pricing can be inconsistent and unpredictable, particularly for business use, potentially leading to unexpected costs.
• Prepare for poor customer support: Getting help from Cloudflare outside of sales can be extremely difficult, often requiring negative press to get a response.
• Avoid relying on Cloudflare’s proprietary products: Using products like zero access, workers, R2, D1, or KV can lead to vendor lock-in and make it difficult to switch providers.
• Make regular backups of Cloudflare configurations: Recreating configurations after losing access can be a significant hassle, so keep regular backups.
• Consider the actual need for Cloudflare: Evaluate whether Cloudflare’s services are necessary for your business, especially if you can be held hostage by their enterprise pricing.
• Understand the limitations of Cloudflare's DDoS protection: Cloudflare might not detect certain types of attacks, particularly sophisticated ones targeting specific vulnerabilities.

Best Practices for Customer Relations

• Communicate Clearly with Customers: Always tell customers the real issue directly, whether it's about IP addresses, service preferences, or cost, instead of evading or inflating the problem.
• Avoid Toxic Sales Practices: Sales teams should not use manipulative tactics or misinformation to push plans or services; this can lead to customer distrust and backlash.
• Be Transparent About Service Restrictions: If certain types of businesses, like gambling sites, are not welcome on your IPs, state this explicitly and provide guidance on alternatives.
• Address and Rectify Internal Issues: Companies should acknowledge and address problematic practices within their teams to prevent public criticism and maintain integrity.
• Need for Leadership Accountability: Leadership should make public statements and take responsibility for addressing and resolving such issues to avoid reputational damage.